Curse

Vangor · May 06, 2005, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Granted I've not been faced with much of a dilemma for switching around my point values, and yes 250 experience is not very difficult to come by, but that is per point refund. I also happen to know exactly what I want my characters to be doing, I have used alot of the skills throughout the betas, I've seen them in use, and I've put together a vast amount of sets for situations. However, I have run out of them at times and thought to switch, so I spend time going out not really to level, but to get a somewhat annoying amount of these refunds back, especially for those of us who distribute much more evenly, meaning further need of constant refunds. Plus I can imagine the annoyance a level 20 must feel when they are spending time PvP'ing, it is difficult to get that experience, they have to go a bit out of their way.

So, just allow points to be refunded inside of towns, this is the same way skills work, if they work this way, then why can't refunds work exactly the same, there is a definite correlation there. For an example of the annoyance here, I hated WoW respeccing talents requiring a cost in gold, especially on PvP servers, a few of our tanks have to be protection spec'd, and a few of our priests have to be holy spec'd, but, it gimps them for solo and smaller group PvP. We have a constant money drain when we want to go out PvP'ing, and then when it settles we decide to raid Molten Core or something, or people sit on the shelf potentially. It also hurts those of us who could otherwise adapt to situations, if I outfitted myself for each group, well I'd never be able to keep up, it is rare I make 2,500 a run with a decent sized group, I might make even less than half that even with a decent quest completed, as monsters keep giving less and less.

And the biggest problem I see is newer players forced to spend further time on a single build just to try out another one, but, you have so much experience elsewhere it does seem to roll off its effectiveness. One of the greatest things I have found of Guild Wars is potentially, a Warrior is not simply the main tank, a Monk is not potentially a healer, and so on like that. People can be incredibly different amongst a single class, further difference when you throw in that second class, and even more different when you decide which is primary and which is secondary. Throw in attributes, and the multitude of spells available, you can easily find alot of difference between two high sword/str/prot spec'd War/Mos by what skills they have chosen for em and when they choose to use them. Not to mention that the extra second you get on some spells or the extra say tick of regen/degen on someone may come four points down the road or more, and you may not have noticed any difference for a few, and not everyone knows where to find out that precise information on it.

So really, I think a simple removal and restriction on the point refund system is needed, take it out and allow it to only be done in town. Points can still be spent outside of town, just like skills can be acquired, but if you're going to change anything it has to be inside of a town, not a real stretch to get rid of those possible annoyances and restrictions a few people have.

Burodsx · May 06, 2005, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Blah blah blah...

Refund points are earned from experience in order to keep people from having unlimited abilities.

This prevents people from converting their character constantly in the heat of battle.

VividDream · May 06, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

... 250 exp is like 10 kills...

Flame · May 06, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

...Including killing 10 players in PvP. So PvP Characters do not have to go out of their way. Do a mission, you get 4 reset points. Quests are usually 2. Not to mention all the XP from killing monsters on the mission.

Vangor · May 06, 2005, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Burod, you seem to completely miss the fact that I had pointed out it would be in town only as with skills. I can't see how this would now grant people unlimited abilities...I had considered well in advance people macro'ing to switch attribute points before casting a spell, this eliminates it, unless you believe that someone running back inside after every fight and resetting the area is somehow effective use of time.

And, really it isn't like 10 kills, fighting in a decent sized group it can easily be 25 kills depending on what you are fighting, and that is for a single point, the next time I feel excited having to kill 250 monsters to redistribute a few points, not try out an entirely different build which many people do, I'll tel you.

Plus, there are alot of one shot arenas with 6 or less people in them, so essentially if you wanted to change inbetween matches, you wouldn't be able to.

The fact is, you can say how easy it is, I can do that with numerous areas, I mean it really doesn't take you that long to run between Lion's Arch and the next mission, and think of all the experience you get along the way, then items, but let us be honest, it is there for the sake of not having to deal with it time and time again. If my team gets defeated at the Fort, maybe we got a couple kills, I might have the inclination to check my build, any decent person would unless their team was just completely horrid but that is rare.

Beyond this though, as simple as it is, the fact is there is no reason to have it that way when it can cause problems and can limit a player's ability, Guild Wars is about removing those minor inconveniences, it is very simple to come across gold, purchase all of your supplies, and be well outfitted, simple enough to get from place to place and know what to do next, rather quick finishing a few quests maybe to unlock some new skills or just give more experience.

I mean, I've always been an Axe warrior, but, I know how effective Swords can be, even Hammers at time, and if I choose to solo through an area I tend to use Axes, Tactics, and Healing, but if I'm with a group, Hammers, a mix of Tactics and Strength, then Protection goes better. However, I'm restricted from using those because it isn't like I'm getting 5k experience every time that situation changes. And as I said, for newer players it is an even greater problem, you need to expend time to test the numerous amount of builds...

I just don't see how this is a bad thing

Sir_Sid · May 06, 2005, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I don't like the refund system..

You pour in 5 points for the next level of strength, and when you refund it, you get one point back and lose a level. =/

Loviatar · May 06, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_Sid

I don't like the refund system..

You pour in 5 points for the next level of strength, and when you refund it, you get one point back and lose a level. =/

wrong
you get back all the points for that level for 1 refund point.
in your example 1 REFUND point would give you back all 5 ATTRIBUTE points for that level

Tomo · May 06, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Well, seeing how hard it is for level 20s to get exp, why not allow accended characters an easier way ?

Loviatar · May 06, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomo

Well, seeing how hard it is for level 20s to get exp, why not allow accended characters an easier way ?

remember that the majority of the game is geared for the level 20 character.
i am certain that they will find things to challenge them and give decent exp.